Bus supercharger kits
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- T-34
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Bus supercharger kits
For those who are interested in a little more oomph for their stock bus, but don't want to stretch to the expense of building a bigger engine you might be interested in my current project. i've been working on developing a supercharger kit for a stock 50hp 1600 bus. Plans are also in the pipeline for 40 and 36 horse versions.
The kit is currently in the prototype stage and I have just fitted the first one it to my lowlight. I'm currently ironing out the bugs and after getting some miles under the belt will get a few out in the wild on test before getting the final versions manufactured ready for sale.
The kit will be bolt on & turn key - everything is included - it can easily be fitted in a weekend. The kit is based around an AMR 500 supercharger and is currently using a Dellorto DHLA on my bus but the finished article will most likely use a DCOE style carb as I can source these new. Blowers will be reconditioned units as these are NLA new. Final finish and materials is to be confirmed.
I'm just sorting out the jetting on my bus and a belt tensioning issue and will be taking it back to the dyno to see how much extra power the kit has given.
Price is not currently set but I am aiming at keeping it below the price of the Speedwell kits (US$1800) - I think this is a pretty good deal considering that you also get the carby as well.
Just like Santa I'm taking names and keeping a list so if you are keen to get in on this, PM me or email me at mick@vdubber.com
If you want to see some more pics you can check out the gallery over at VDubber - http://www.vdubber.com/photos/album?gro ... bumid=1109
I will keep this thread updated with the progress.
Thanks for looking.
The kit is currently in the prototype stage and I have just fitted the first one it to my lowlight. I'm currently ironing out the bugs and after getting some miles under the belt will get a few out in the wild on test before getting the final versions manufactured ready for sale.
The kit will be bolt on & turn key - everything is included - it can easily be fitted in a weekend. The kit is based around an AMR 500 supercharger and is currently using a Dellorto DHLA on my bus but the finished article will most likely use a DCOE style carb as I can source these new. Blowers will be reconditioned units as these are NLA new. Final finish and materials is to be confirmed.
I'm just sorting out the jetting on my bus and a belt tensioning issue and will be taking it back to the dyno to see how much extra power the kit has given.
Price is not currently set but I am aiming at keeping it below the price of the Speedwell kits (US$1800) - I think this is a pretty good deal considering that you also get the carby as well.
Just like Santa I'm taking names and keeping a list so if you are keen to get in on this, PM me or email me at mick@vdubber.com
If you want to see some more pics you can check out the gallery over at VDubber - http://www.vdubber.com/photos/album?gro ... bumid=1109
I will keep this thread updated with the progress.
Thanks for looking.
- D-Train
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Re: Bus supercharger kits
thats awesome. im really liking this idea/kit.
uve done well mate!
uve done well mate!
- 067DUB
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- matara
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Re: Bus supercharger kits
That kit looks relatively simple and straight forward. What sort of hp power increase are you expecting from the kit? Does it require any mods to the timing/dist?
Cheers
Steve
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUa9ezuXtLs[/youtube]
Cheers
Steve
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUa9ezuXtLs[/youtube]
- T-34
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Re: Bus supercharger kits
Hi Steve,
The advance on the dizzy needs to be limited by bending in the stops. It's a pretty easy procedure. If you want to get tricky with it you can drill and tap the stops and use a small grub screw (with locktite!!). I did this to mine to make dialling it in a little easier but it's not really necessary and I won't be recommending it on the final kit as I don't really want to have to deal with bad press due to swarf and grub screws turning distributors into maracas.
This is what I did to mine (you actually drill and tap it upside down to stop the swarf going in there )
In reality, all you need to do is remove the dizzy, remove the little side cover and bend the stops in using a drift and a light hammer. Then put it back on the car, set the timing to 22 degrees overall (mech) and see where your idle sits. 7-10 degrees should be ideal, if it's not - simply do the whole procedure again bending the stops whichever way they need to go. You could even do it with the dizzy on the bus if you want, you just need to take the side cover off to access the stops and glue it back on once you have finished. Also happy to supply these ready set & tested if required.
As for the power. At this stage I am not really sure on what BHP it will produce. Anything up to double and possibly more is a reality, but there is an obvious trade off between boost and engine longevity (from memory 100bhp would require in region of 17psi on a stock 1600 - far too high IMHO). I'm aiming at somewhere around the 7 or 8psi mark which should hopefully give in the region of 70hp - basically the same power as a stock 2.0 Litre Type 4. If I can achieve this reliably I will be very happy.
Obviously if people want more power all they have to do is swap out the blower pulley and increase the pulley ratio. There are plenty of people running turbos at 12psi on stock 1600's so there will be room for more if people want to overdrive the chargers. There is however a limit to what the AMR500 will put out. This limitation also means that the kit will not work on larger engine sizes as a result. I've got one lined up to go on a 1776 bus over in the UK but this might be pushing it a little. Will be interesting to see how it performs.
Unfortunately trying to calculate the exact output involves too many variables, so it's very hard to give a definitive answer at this stage. I want to get the initial kit dialled in and take it back to the dyno so that I can actually measure the real output. I have already taken the bus there to get baseline readings (39.8 @ wheels / 51 @ flywheel - WOOT!) so will see whats what after I've got the prototype sorted. Once I've gone through the R&D process I will then be able to quote some firm figures rather than just some crazy claim.
Been setting up the jetting tonight. it's still a way off but pulls hard, a massive improvement over the stock 1600 with a PICT34/3. Once the jetting is in the ballpark and I sort out my belt slip issue I will get the final jetting finished off on the dyno and get those final readings.
Plan is to supply carbs ready jetted - this will obviously only be somewhere in the ballpark as all engines are different but should get you running so that you can get the final settings dialled in on a dyno / by the seat of your pants / or whatever other method you prefer.
Mick.
The advance on the dizzy needs to be limited by bending in the stops. It's a pretty easy procedure. If you want to get tricky with it you can drill and tap the stops and use a small grub screw (with locktite!!). I did this to mine to make dialling it in a little easier but it's not really necessary and I won't be recommending it on the final kit as I don't really want to have to deal with bad press due to swarf and grub screws turning distributors into maracas.
This is what I did to mine (you actually drill and tap it upside down to stop the swarf going in there )
In reality, all you need to do is remove the dizzy, remove the little side cover and bend the stops in using a drift and a light hammer. Then put it back on the car, set the timing to 22 degrees overall (mech) and see where your idle sits. 7-10 degrees should be ideal, if it's not - simply do the whole procedure again bending the stops whichever way they need to go. You could even do it with the dizzy on the bus if you want, you just need to take the side cover off to access the stops and glue it back on once you have finished. Also happy to supply these ready set & tested if required.
As for the power. At this stage I am not really sure on what BHP it will produce. Anything up to double and possibly more is a reality, but there is an obvious trade off between boost and engine longevity (from memory 100bhp would require in region of 17psi on a stock 1600 - far too high IMHO). I'm aiming at somewhere around the 7 or 8psi mark which should hopefully give in the region of 70hp - basically the same power as a stock 2.0 Litre Type 4. If I can achieve this reliably I will be very happy.
Obviously if people want more power all they have to do is swap out the blower pulley and increase the pulley ratio. There are plenty of people running turbos at 12psi on stock 1600's so there will be room for more if people want to overdrive the chargers. There is however a limit to what the AMR500 will put out. This limitation also means that the kit will not work on larger engine sizes as a result. I've got one lined up to go on a 1776 bus over in the UK but this might be pushing it a little. Will be interesting to see how it performs.
Unfortunately trying to calculate the exact output involves too many variables, so it's very hard to give a definitive answer at this stage. I want to get the initial kit dialled in and take it back to the dyno so that I can actually measure the real output. I have already taken the bus there to get baseline readings (39.8 @ wheels / 51 @ flywheel - WOOT!) so will see whats what after I've got the prototype sorted. Once I've gone through the R&D process I will then be able to quote some firm figures rather than just some crazy claim.
Been setting up the jetting tonight. it's still a way off but pulls hard, a massive improvement over the stock 1600 with a PICT34/3. Once the jetting is in the ballpark and I sort out my belt slip issue I will get the final jetting finished off on the dyno and get those final readings.
Plan is to supply carbs ready jetted - this will obviously only be somewhere in the ballpark as all engines are different but should get you running so that you can get the final settings dialled in on a dyno / by the seat of your pants / or whatever other method you prefer.
Mick.
- morts
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Re: Bus supercharger kits
Good one Mick....
No matter what happens they can't take you out in the street and shoot you......
- T-34
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- Tonz Magonz
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Re: Bus supercharger kits
Would a twin belt system help elminate belt slip..?
ie. 1 belt in stock configuration and 1 belt just running blower..
ie. 1 belt in stock configuration and 1 belt just running blower..
Wanted..Barny bits or 60's Supercharger other than Judson
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Re: Bus supercharger kits
Yes, the Speedwell set up is like this. More belts = more grip. The only issue is, that this also means more cost due to the additional pulleys. If I end up at the point where I have to manufacture additional pulleys I would prefer to swap to a multigroove belt as I can machine these myself or get them CNC machined, plus the AMR500 already comes fitted with a suitable OEM pulley fitted so I only have to supply a crank pulley and alternator pulley.
I could possibly even go to a gilmer (toothed belt) type setup but I would need to buy these in as I don't currently have the equipment to make the pulleys. However, I think that with a gilmer type set up it would add another $300 to the cost which starts to make the extra 20 or 30 hp that the kit gives you an expensive exercise. Whilst this type of set up looks really cool IMHO it's a bit of overkill and probably prices the kit out of the market plus with a toothed belt there is zero slip so a pop-off valve is also needed in case of cough backs.
At the moment I am trying to retain the stock crank and alternator / dynamo pulleys but if I can't get it to work reliably then I will need to take a look at plan B which will likely be a multi groove belt.
Mick.
I could possibly even go to a gilmer (toothed belt) type setup but I would need to buy these in as I don't currently have the equipment to make the pulleys. However, I think that with a gilmer type set up it would add another $300 to the cost which starts to make the extra 20 or 30 hp that the kit gives you an expensive exercise. Whilst this type of set up looks really cool IMHO it's a bit of overkill and probably prices the kit out of the market plus with a toothed belt there is zero slip so a pop-off valve is also needed in case of cough backs.
At the moment I am trying to retain the stock crank and alternator / dynamo pulleys but if I can't get it to work reliably then I will need to take a look at plan B which will likely be a multi groove belt.
Mick.
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Re: Bus supercharger kits
oops - just noticed you meant a separate belt.
Yes it would be better this way, but will still require additional pulleys. It also requires spacing the supercharger out so not as easy to try with the current set up. This might be how it ends up going as pretty much most kits are like this - but that's the beauty of R&D - have a go, see what works and refine it.
Mick.
Yes it would be better this way, but will still require additional pulleys. It also requires spacing the supercharger out so not as easy to try with the current set up. This might be how it ends up going as pretty much most kits are like this - but that's the beauty of R&D - have a go, see what works and refine it.
Mick.
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Re: Bus supercharger kits
Bit of an update on the progress...
Belt issue is now fixed. The pulley profile was incorrect. After changing it for a vee style pulley there is no more slip. Also been negotiating to secure first shipment of carburettors.
I've been spending the past few days tuning and now have it running quite well. It still needs a little more tweaking as it is leaning out a little on the mains under heavy load but the difference from the stock setup is phenomenal. Previously I could only crawl up the hill at the beginning of the freeway here in Adelaide at 60kph in 3rd, now I can manage it at 100kph in top. What's more it's only running on 5psi.
My assistant took this pic whilst we were driving on our test track . Pretty sure my speedo reads over, but you get the general idea.
Really looking forward to changing out the pulley ratios to take the boost up to 7 or 8 psi
Will let you know how it goes.
Mick.
Belt issue is now fixed. The pulley profile was incorrect. After changing it for a vee style pulley there is no more slip. Also been negotiating to secure first shipment of carburettors.
I've been spending the past few days tuning and now have it running quite well. It still needs a little more tweaking as it is leaning out a little on the mains under heavy load but the difference from the stock setup is phenomenal. Previously I could only crawl up the hill at the beginning of the freeway here in Adelaide at 60kph in 3rd, now I can manage it at 100kph in top. What's more it's only running on 5psi.
My assistant took this pic whilst we were driving on our test track . Pretty sure my speedo reads over, but you get the general idea.
Really looking forward to changing out the pulley ratios to take the boost up to 7 or 8 psi
Will let you know how it goes.
Mick.
- Tonz Magonz
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Re: Bus supercharger kits
Sounds like you may have already caught the HP virus..
The R&D is half the fun..
Good to hear the progress..
The R&D is half the fun..
Good to hear the progress..
Wanted..Barny bits or 60's Supercharger other than Judson
- T-34
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Re: Bus supercharger kits
Heh yes, always good to get a little more power
With the kit at 5psi I'm confident that it will run with no detriment to the engine other than the increased wear that you would associate with having a heavy right foot - no different from any performance engine in that regard.
I've found that it can easily be driven off of boost and the extra power is there when you need it. Temps driving up the freeway were a steady 180 degrees on the stock doghouse cooler. Also - although I haven't measured it properly yet fuel consumption isn't too bad. We went to Meadows and back via Hahndorf yesterday which ended up just over a 100k's round trip. Filled her up the day before and used just under a quarter of a tank - which by reckoning is about 15 litres / 100k's. (56 litre tank?) Not too bad considering the bad aerodynamics and a heavy bus - Camper interior, pop top, all the camping gear, spare wheel, shovel and jerry can on the roof rack above the cab and the misses, two kids and a packed lunch in there too. (obviously would have been a lot faster without the packed lunch )
I'm banking that it's the same or very similar at 7/8psi.
Mick.
With the kit at 5psi I'm confident that it will run with no detriment to the engine other than the increased wear that you would associate with having a heavy right foot - no different from any performance engine in that regard.
I've found that it can easily be driven off of boost and the extra power is there when you need it. Temps driving up the freeway were a steady 180 degrees on the stock doghouse cooler. Also - although I haven't measured it properly yet fuel consumption isn't too bad. We went to Meadows and back via Hahndorf yesterday which ended up just over a 100k's round trip. Filled her up the day before and used just under a quarter of a tank - which by reckoning is about 15 litres / 100k's. (56 litre tank?) Not too bad considering the bad aerodynamics and a heavy bus - Camper interior, pop top, all the camping gear, spare wheel, shovel and jerry can on the roof rack above the cab and the misses, two kids and a packed lunch in there too. (obviously would have been a lot faster without the packed lunch )
I'm banking that it's the same or very similar at 7/8psi.
Mick.
- bay window bandit
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Re: Bus supercharger kits
Looks quite promising, I was thinking of going turbo charged, but now this looks like a viable alternative.
Is this set up on a single port? or do you have a twin port in your lowlight?
Is this set up on a single port? or do you have a twin port in your lowlight?
A bad day cruzin' is better than a good day at work.
Mats.
68 Lowlight camper on Sprintstars.
1971 Beetle lowered on Empi 8 spokes.
Mats.
68 Lowlight camper on Sprintstars.
1971 Beetle lowered on Empi 8 spokes.
- T-34
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Re: Bus supercharger kits
I have a twinport in mine but will be doing a version for singles as well.